The “Rules of Engagement” prohibit our troops from firing back if there is the possibility of injuring non-combantants. This makes it impossible to ever defeat the Taliban. In WW11 we firebombed cities and killed millions of civilians in order to crush their ability to wage war. That is the only way to wipe out the scourge of Jihad.

Suggest that everyone read this AP story published today: “Official: Obama wants his war options changed” at http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD9BTNRHO0

It is a sign of strength, not weakness, to seek the best solution for a very complex problem. This can take time. So what? We’ve been there eight years already. Let’s try to find the best way to go forward. Firebombing cities and killing millions of civilians, as Sidney Wagner claims in this discussion thread is “the only way to wipe out the scourge of Jihad,” is not a “solution,” it would constitute an appalling war crime against a nebulous enemy. (P.S. to Mr. Wagner: I doubt very much if “millions” of civilians were killed in those WWII airstrikes; thousands, yes; millions, no.)

@A. C. Cherbonnier I agree that we need the best solution. The problem is that the American public, largely, doesn’t have the patience for the war to take that long nor the will to do everything — diplomatically and militarily — to do what it will take to win.

Kevin hit the nail on the head. The American public doesn’t have the patience for a war following Vietnam. On a conflict of this scale it will take time to do it right and the patience for the formation of a creditable government. If a stable government cannot be formed then no matter how many troops are in the field it would all be for nothing. That is one of the lessons of Vietnam. Americans want answers to all problems in no longer than a few weeks which is why any major bill Congress takes up is battered to death. Some processes take time to develop correctly, but unfortunately the public wants instant results.

@Sidney Wagner
The rules of engagement should be , if they shoot, shoot back, PERIOD!!!
OTHERWISE, don’t send in ground troops, use gunships

Read “Three Cups of Tea” if you want to know how foreigners (us) can have success in Afghanistan. It’s a long, slow, arduous process, one village at a time, and involves people who are willing to accept the practices of Islam that the villagers believe in, without any attempt to bring in Western or “Christian” practices to take their place. Even well-intentioned efforts to provide infrastructure may be met with suspicion because villagers think that we are there to change their religion. In some cases, they won’t use what is provided, because they fear it is against Islamic practice. I understand that birth control is not forbidden in Islam, for instance, but poor people think that health workers are trying to keep the population down so that Christianity can win over Islam as their numbers decrease!

Given the fact that we have a large population of “born again” Christians who believe that dinosaurs walked with men, that everything in the bible is literally true (even the parts that conflict with each other!) etc, we don’t have a lot of room for scorn about these beliefs.

What it means, however, is that our chance of winning over Afghanistan to more modern ways, particularly since, at the same time we are saddled with a partnership with a truly corrupt government, is virtually nil. The money being sucked out of our economy is hurting us at home, and we’re creating a new generation of maimed (physically and mentally) veterans to populate our street corners, begging for handouts.

We should leave now! If there are successful aid organizations in place, like the school building program of the “Three Cups of Tea” author, let’s give them some money and workers, and call it good.

Sharon Toji

@Sharon Toji This “one village at a time” method doesn’t work either. Once the western troops leave the village, the Taliban comes back in and takes over.

So, we shouldn’t scorn refusing education to young girls, sanctioned rape of young girls, removal of limbs to petty crimes, etc. that their particular screwed up version of Islam proposes? Call me crazy, but I’ll take the “young Earth” crowd. They’re hurting no one.

Okay, I find the treatment of women and girls as chattel appalling. NO doubt. However, we have only to look in our own ghettos to see that children who grow up with one or no parents turn into the next generation of violent combatants. Even the Taliban have kids. Since adulthood comes so early in some parts of the world, does anyone even know what “normal” life is over there, as several generations have come and gone in this current cycle. My Punjabi friends are not so optimistic about a “definitive” solution.

Sharon, I HEAR you. Hey, tell me that doesn’t even happen within the U.S.! I live in a small state. People have come for 2 centuries now, from other states and profit from our resources and this capital leaves with them. They don’t take the time to understand how we socialize, do business or just cope, but they are full of opinions about why our standard of living is lower than theirs. Few want to hear our homegrown ideas. It takes YEARS for us to truly trust someone from outside, because ultimately, everyone has had a hidden agenda. Even the well meanings one – if they fail, they can always just go home, but we are still here and we have to cope with the hand we were dealt. IF people don’t even understand that much, speaking the same language and having the same basic macro-history, what chance is there that they will understand that they must really climb out of their “western” mindset and think through the situation from the perspective of the inhabitants.

Let’s step back and ask ourselves how successful we have been in dealing with the drug trade from Central America through Mexico?? That’s on our own back door and we don’t have a successful solution. So we are fighting the war on several different fronts in Afghanistan. Without a solution to the opium trade, I cannot see a way to make progress. How likely is that??

I flew back from a European country last year and sat next to a high ranking officer from a non-U.S. unit serving in Afghanistan. I realize that he only told me what he could, but I don’t see how anyone can make a decision, given all the variables.

I want young girls to feel safe enough to go to school and have a life, but if their brother or cousin is out there with the extremists, and he gets killed, we have lost that girl and her family who will hate us even if they knew he was doing wrong. I am extremely conflicted about this issue and think the ultimate solution offered will please no faction here, which might be the sign it is the best we can come up with.

I want to hope that the reason this is taking so long is that Obama is going to play hard ball with Karzai with regard to the corruption. Most fruit has some bad spots, but when the apple is mostly rotten, there comes a point where you can’t salvage anything and have to throw it away.