Home > health, politics > Grassroots or astroturf?

Grassroots or astroturf?

August 15th, 2009

Since the Congress adjourned, there is an ever increasing number of media reports of testy town hall exchanges between the public and their representatives. Some politicians, including House speaker Nancy Pelosi, have suggested that those with more critical views have been coached by professionals. Others have insisted that protesters act spontaneously.

Do you believe that town hall protesters primarily act spontaneously or do you think they have largely being organized? Did you attend any of the town hall meetings yourself?

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Zeljka health, politics

  1. ZagChuck
    | #1

    They (the left) cannot comprehend this amount of involvement at these events by individuals who haven’t been bought and paid for, because that’s how they have always operated their events. It’s really simple if you think about it. At every Dem campaign event, who is there? The Unions (NEA, AFL-CIO, UAW, SIEU, etc…) The ACORN folks, or their local equivalent, the Indoctrinated and their indoctrinators (students and professors), and the Kool-Aid drinkers who watch mainstream media and have been fooled into believing the hype. Little else ever shows up to a leftist’s event.

    Make no mistake about it, Obama KNOWS this is about his Presidency. Look where he is going, as he tries to sell this plan…. States he MUST keep control of in 2012 for himself, and in 2010 for his Senate and House majorities. This is nothing more than another campaign for the left… A Chance to tell the public the lies main stream media will not refute, in order to advance their own agendas.

    The average everyday people who have been showing up to these events are there to say “We’ve had enough!” The majority of Americans are mad as hell at the direction Obama and his ilk in both houses have taken this country, and they’re just as mad as the so-called moderate republicans who came before him and set us up for it. These wonderful people are standing up to say, “We will be silent no more!” They are sick to death at the direction our country is moving, and tired of these things being forced down their throats by politicians on both sides of the aisle, who seem to have been more focused on their careers than their duties to their constituents.

    People around the country are seriously concerned about the overexpansion of government; in its size, depth, breadth, and width, but also in its unconstitutional over-expansion of power. All of which has taken more of our freedoms. People are finally standing up to our employees and telling them we will hold them accountable for their actions. Unfortunately it took this long for it to happen, but now that we’re here, we’re not going away!

  2. Margaret Phillips
    | #2

    T Whom It May Concern,
    I am a very concerned senior, great grandmother to a special needs child, and contributor to providing a home and meals to aforementioned great grandchild and 2 grandchildren who have not been able to find work. I still substitute teach and feel I am a contributor to society and the economy.

    The history of our country says Progressives and Liberals in the past have believed in practices that sterilized the “undesirables” and were considering other practices that I am against that could arise out of the Healthcare bill as now written.

    I believe they should KILL THE BILL!

    I am active in the TEA (Taxed Enough Already) Party group. We are against the debt the present congress and administration is creating or trying to create. I believe in the Constitution and free enterprise.

    One of the prime duties of government is to protect its citizens. The present administration through congress is reducing our defense budget while putting us in debt for programs that are pork ladened and not working as they promoted.

    Why should I believe that they will do a good or better job of running Universal Health Care? Their many costly efforts currently are the Post Office, Amtrak, Medicare, Medicaid, Stimulus Program, and takeover of GM and Chrysler. There are others not as prominent but still costly to taxpayers.

  3. Louis T. Sigel
    | #3

    Well, it is NOT liberals and progressives who have ever believed in or practiced sterilizing so-called ‘undesirables’. It is precisely the opposite ideological groups who have advocated and even put into effect these policies in the past.
    These kinds of policies as well as dictated euthanasia through rationing, denial of coverage, and cancellation of policies are currently believed in and practiced by the administrators of the private insurance companies. It is precisely these practices which will be outlawed by the proposed health insurance reform before Congress.
    And let’s face it–the so-called ‘death panel’ provision originated in the Republican Medicare prescription plan as an attack on lawyers. They want people to consult physicians rather than lawyers about end-of-life procedures. If you sign a living will, it is your lawyer who the expert on your legal decisions. It is certainly NOT a doctor. But the Republicans provided for Medicare payment to physicians for terminally ill patients in the 2003 bill. And now the provision in the health insurance reform bill provides extending that to all seniors and the origin was Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia, a rather right-wing conservative Republican. As he noted, anyone who could consider this measure as establishing ‘death panels’ is “nuts”!

  4. Louis T. Sigel
    | #4

    I agree with Margaret Phillips above that one of the prime duties of the government is to protect its citizens. And I believe that the health insurance reform proposals supported the Obama administration and the majority of Democrats does precisely that. It protects us from the arbitrary and inappropriate administration currently practiced by the private health insurance companies.

  5. Cata
    | #5

    The protests are genuine, though skewed to the right.

    Obama’s proposal is a disaster. He keeps talking about affordable coverage, lower costs, high quality health-care for everybody, nobody between you and your doctor blah blah blah… Well, everybody is for that. Nobody wants other people to die and everybody wants excellent care, preferably for free.

    And there comes the problem. For as long as people are not paying for the costs of their care, there will be somebody between them and their doctors – namely, the entity paying for them. That can be an insurance company or a government, but in either case, whoever pays calls the shots.

  6. Philip A. Robinson
    | #6

    These shouting matches are organized. Each story line follows the same theme, each sign , hand lettered or not has the same theme.

    The shouting and discing appears to have a leader or two in each crowd. Look at it this way there are estate taxes which the right refers to as “Death Taxes” most people do not pay them at all. There are living wills and health care proxies or as the right clams “Death Committees”

    The same groups of people and individuals are paying for the promotions and advertising as those who demonized the Democratic candidates during the last election. No one pays the demonstrators, they are pawns.

  7. Randy
    | #7

    These kinds of protests at the town hall meetings with senators/congressmen have beed completely staged by the right wing of the Repugnacan Party. No doubt about it.

    No true American would ever shout down a patriotic and currently-serving member of our Congress. True-blue Americans would show more respect. All this shouting-down action is typical of former socialist and nationalist-socialist (e.g., Nazi Germany) types. As such, no one should pay any attention to these folks. True Americans will rise up and support public financing of health care.

    Otherwise, my thinking is this: you are not only anti-American, but you are part of the problem and need to be dealt with harshly. (READ: more harshly than a simply “shouting-down” of a weak politician)

    Yours Truly with Love,

    Sgt Jackson

  8. Linda LR
    | #8

    Because of the spending first by republicans and now by the dems, I hve taken to the streets. I have more time on my hands than my younger working counterparts, as i am working less. no one is directing me to do so, however, I myself am organizing a group, helping them to focus and learn issues, so they can be effecive voices. We believe if we use the 912project for educational material, the TEA PARTIES for bodies in the street, to show volume, and the GOOOH project for effecting change with in our comunities via the legislative process, we will be able to stop the constant barrage if crisis fueled shove-thru legislation.

    No one has staged us, and no one has paid us, in fact we are not recieving funding from anyone, small community groups like us. If you can follow the money and prove it, We invite the investigation. We went to a town hall in georgia, and who i saw was ORganizing for America, Moveon.org and s few other groups who did appear to be paid as they were handing out stuff, and taking surveys.. so if you are implying there is somethng wrong with staging, organizing, perhaps Soros and moveon, and Organizing for America could refuse their funding from government. I see it as wrong to take money from all taxpayers for one side of an issue, then to mock and imply the other side is pulling tricks. Laughable that the poor and greedy, who want the funds from the taxpayers that Can pay, are always complaining about the possibility of getting cut off from those funds.

  9. Neo
    | #9

    Democratic politicians may believe that these townhall meetings are being “astroturf”-ed at their own peril.

  10. Scrapette
    | #10

    I have attended 2 tea party protests and 2 town hall meetings. I’m 53 years old and have been around the block once or twice. If I had gotten any sense of organized lemmings at these events, I’d have been at first appalled, then secondly, I’d been trying to find the head honcho to sign up for a paycheck, too. ;-)

    The protests and anger are grass-roots, and the reaction is about more than just healthcare reform. In fact, seems to me to be kinda silly even being asked this, although I realize you have to. The Dems are making the accusation because… what else is there to say? That it’s real? That a majority is having second thoughts about electing Obama? Like one woman at a town hall said, “I’m tired of being lied to and lied about.” The about sums it up for me, too. :-)

  11. SharonAnn Tomal
    | #11

    @Louis T. Sigel
    Well Mr. Sigel. It was the so-called Progressives that said an unborn’s life isn’t worth 2 cents. That’s why they discount them when determining who lives and who dies. It seems to me that if you are going to pay the ultimate price (death) for a “woman’s choice” then it should be for a very very good reason (say life and health concerns), but not so with the liberal dems. It’s just a matter of convenience. To them any reason is a good reason to kill unborn children. So take that Mr. Sigel–no one has clean hands in this.

  12. M. Scott
    | #12

    Many years ago I took a course on the history of Political parties in the United States. I enjoyed it very much and learned a lot as well. The one thing that as stayed with me from this course is that when you get to the extremes in either party, far right, far left; they are not able to compromise. They either want complete control by the government or no government interference at all. We the moderates, Republicans and Democrats are now trying to pick up the pieces. The quiet majority is now expressing themselves along with the extreme factions. We may get to emotional and shout and or offended when interupted but we are new at this. We have to put this nation back on sure footing. We must pay the bills and our debt. That means all entitlements must be looked at and evaluated and yes we may loose some. That means we must remind our representatives what we would like and except the majority opinion when it doesn’t match ours. We must not lose interest in a few weeks but become better educated and more interested in national affairs. If for no other reason than we owe it to all the soldiers who have died, been POw’s or maimed, After all they couldn’t stop and go home when it didn’t suit them or choose which battle they wish to participate. The reason the politicians see us as they do is because we have not kept up with our duty as a citizen. We are now energised and lets hope we stay the course.

  13. Dwight
    | #13

    @Randy
    quote: “No true American would ever shout down a patriotic and currently-serving member of our Congress. True-blue Americans would show more respect.”

    2 points:

    1. Why is it that you and the MSM don’t give the same outrage to leftist fringe radicals like code pink at the Republican Convention? Well forget that point, as anyone close-minded as you come across who to needs to resort to “Repugnacan Party” insults obviously could not admit it anyway, you see only what you want to see.

    2. Obviously you endorse public officials arrogantly impugning decent citizens, calling them “evil-mongering”, “Nari”, “Un American” KKK terriorists”, etc. or you would be open minded enough to acknowledge that fact. I for one believe that our elected officials of all political parties should be held to higher standards than ordinary citizens. You can tell all you need to know about anyone by how they treat people with less power than they possess.

  14. browns 44
    | #14

    Spontaneous & grassroots, go to one and see for yourself. Note the ACORN and Union thugs that show up to “support” the liberals. Now those are organized astroturf protesters coached by professionals.
    P.S. And paid for as well.

  15. Louis T. Sigel
    | #15

    Well, SharonAnn Tomal, there is a big difference and it is precisely this: YOU want to put a government official interfering in the decisions made by a woman and her doctor to impose your religious beliefs. I want to keep the government out of people’s bedrooms and out of interfering in the decisions made by a patient and the doctor. And I want to get the insurance industry bureaucrats out of interfering in the decision about health care as well.
    So, SharonAnn, YOU are the inconsistent one, so take that.
    And contrary to what lies you may spread or have been gullible enough to accept, abortions will NOT be covered under the health insurance reforms proposed.

  16. Mr. Sanders
    | #16

    @Louis T. Sigel
    No sir, it is not “one of the prime duties of the government to protect it’s citizens”.

    “fundamental principle that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen.”[Warren vs. District of Columbia]

    While I agree that our system needs a great deal of reform, and insurance companies have been buying favor in Congress for way too long; What protections or recourse would we have if the government eliminated private plans and failed to provide effective service? Past “Sovereign Immunity” results and laws would leave us dependent and powerless.

    I hope we can find a way to provide cost effective service for all Americans, but I hope we can find a way to do it without giving employers an incentive to dump their plans and force us all into the government plan.

    Good debate all. This is what being American is all about.

  17. Louis T. Sigel
    | #17

    Well, Mr. Sanders, I guess you have NOT read the US Constitution. The
    Preamble reads:’We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.’

    Clearly, our Founding Fathers established our system for these reasons.

  18. David Vann
    | #18

    Having read all of the above, I’ve come to the conclusion that the progressive thinkers in the United States fail to understand that Americans have sat back and given this governmental horse too much rein and it has headed off the path of sensible thinking. But is not the Liberal’s or Conservative’s fault. They have all been feeding at the same lobbyist’s trough. They only pay attention to the voters in their districts at election time. The rest of the time, lobbyists have their ear.

    Those who go to town hall meetings and get carried away are tired of being ignored all of these years. Now they have found their voices and a way to talk face to face with their Representatives. They are frustrated and tired of getting form letters from Senators and Congressmen that that try to justify their positions as they tell us that they know what is best for us. They have become a pack of privileged snobs who cannot see that this resentment on our part is real, not ORGANIZED.

    We ordinary folks have no political organizers, we have intellects that can discern the difference between right and wrong. Congress has forgotten how.

  19. Jaime
    | #19

    If a television station airs a talking head who incites viewers with political rhetoric and this show is sponsored by companies which have bought advertising time, then the resulting effects have been “bought and paid for”. They have reeled you in just as surely as makers of sugary cereals reel in children on Saturday mornings. That’s why advertising firms hire psychologists. The beauty of the system is that it is not necessary to have local organizing meetings, etc. Try to convince a teenager, who has watched music videos that they are just slavishly following the fashions displayed in the video and they will tell you they are making a personal statement. This is no different. If this stuff didn’t work, there would not be public relations firms.

    I work in the state capitol. I am close enough to see what is actually said, then what is reported. I also can see the lobbyists and company representatives as they come and go. They visit the conservatives every bit as much as the liberals. Then I see the spin they buy on television. Especially during legislative sessions, it is a spectator sport in the division in which I work. We compare what we see with what is on television, then what is reported in all the state’s newspapers. For the most part, radio, television and print media do only provide you with a snippet of what actually happened. But the heaviest hand is in the conservative media. People, they are only feeding you one slice out of the loaf, and then getting you all lathered up, based on incomplete information. I would be embarrassed to go protest at a town meeting based on such slim data.

    The way to be informed is to attend these public forums, but allow your representative to speak without first shouting him or her down. Be polite when asking questions and you might be able to get a followup question in. Plus others will also have time for their questions rather than listen to you rant. It is also possible to download proposed legislation from their website – even the health bill. Don’t rely on some talking head to tell you what your opinion is. IF you are the intellectuals you claim, read the bill yourself. Compare it to prior laws and/or proposed legislation. Ironically, you will find that some of the provisions you abhor were in legislation your side as advocated in the past! That makes you look pretty darn stupid.

    I have held this job 22 years, and I have seen allot come and go – on both sides, politically. But I have to say the use of media to foment these current protests is slick, slick, slick.

  20. | #20

    I have heard it said that you can judge a person by the people they surroung themselves with. That is so true in this cause. How many members of the Presidents so called “czars” are registered “communist”? Check this out you will be amazed or maybe not, I wasn’t. See how many members of Congress or Senate are registered the same way. They don’t run for office as this because they couldn’t win, but that’s how they are registered. I think its time we tried to get a referendum put on the next national election to get term limits put on the Senators and Congressman. This would get rid of these who make a living on our backs. They have become so powerful that we no longer matter to them. If they can only serve 8 years just like a President, maybe we can keep them on our side and out of the pockets of lobbyists. We need to get rid of lobbyist completely. That will make us the top concern instead of the unions, banks, insurance companies, car companies, etc. We need to take our country back from all of these special interest groups, before it’s to late

  21. Louis T. Sigel
    | #21

    Well, Jaime and linda, I agree with you that the special interest groups are the problem and I think they are a problem because of the influence of money in politics. We need campaign finance reform at the federal and state level–we have a good bit of campaign finance reform here in Maine with our ‘Clean Election’ system, which I personally helped put on the ballot by referendum and then pass (of course, we had to do it ourselves because the politicians would NOT.)
    Only individuals can vote, so only individuals should be able to make campaign contributions. I would outlaw all campaign contributions by companies–which is the case in Texas–, unions and other special interests groups as well as PACs. And I would put a limit on the amount of money any individual can contribute to a specific candidate. That would certainly go a long way toward taking our country back from special interests and force the politicians to appeal to us directly and work in our interest.

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